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 Poynting Vector and ionizing radiation

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StevenL Posted - 04/30/2022 : 04:46:44
Community members,

I am doing some study about the Poynting Vector, used for describing energy flux via electromagnetic radiation, especially power flow in electric circuits. It is a very useful model.

Does anyone know if the Poynting Vector is used, especially in any practical way, in the study of ionizing radiation?

Thanks, Steven Lightfoot
10   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
StevenL Posted - 05/01/2022 : 05:55:41
quote:
Originally posted by ullix

So, you postulate two types of energy? If only Einstein had known this!




Thx to you both for these interesting comments. I am a mech eng, not an EE or physicist, so I am learning a lot.

Still reading Geigerlog manual, slowly. what a nice piece of work.
Damien68 Posted - 05/01/2022 : 01:34:56
energy can have several states and be transformed from one state to another.

we can transform mass into energy and energy into mass, intrinsically it may be the same thing (some Joules), but it's not the same state and require transformation to pass from one state to another one instantly. I believe that's what Einstein said.

they are joules both and can be transformed from one state to another but they cannot be confused.
ullix Posted - 05/01/2022 : 01:24:05
So, you postulate two types of energy? If only Einstein had known this!
Damien68 Posted - 05/01/2022 : 00:55:55
quote:
Originally posted by ullix

Why stop at gamma?

With E=m*c^2, and E=h*v (v for greek letter Nu, for frequency), all mass can be expressed as energy or as electromagnetic wave with frequency v. And all frequencies can be explained as photons.

Just how to improve a Geiger counter based on them isn't fully clear to me.



E=m*c^2 -> OK
E=h*v (Planck-Einstein relation) is applicable only for photons (massless corpuscles) or EM wave.

but we can go to metaphysics, maybe we are only waves and we fantasize our existence. in any case Descartes said: I think therefore I am, phew... that's reassuring me.

theoretically we can diffract x or gamma rays like light or get the same effect described by Thomas Young in his Double Slit Experiment.

but it is sure that it will not change much for the Geiger counters
ullix Posted - 05/01/2022 : 00:21:48
Why stop at gamma?

With E=m*c^2, and E=h*v (v for greek letter Nu, for frequency), all mass can be expressed as energy or as electromagnetic wave with frequency v. And all frequencies can be explained as photons.

And don't forget good old Maxwell, and his contributions! As we all know:



Just how to improve a Geiger counter based on them isn't fully clear to me.
StevenL Posted - 04/30/2022 : 11:23:13
quote:
Originally posted by Damien68

quote:
Originally posted by StevenL
yes, its very theoretical. I assume if its good for EM waves it applies to x and gamma rays, but as you say, maybe of no practical use. Thank you.


exact I did not make the connection, you are right the x and gamma can be seen as a EM wave like light.



Yeah cool. Thx. I have been using the Poynting vector to properly explain the direction of power flow in an AC conductor, so therefore the direction of energy flux, as the cross product of the AC electric (voltage) field and the magnetic (current) field, it explains it perfectly.

Steven Lightfoot
Damien68 Posted - 04/30/2022 : 10:01:11
quote:
Originally posted by StevenL
yes, its very theoretical. I assume if its good for EM waves it applies to x and gamma rays, but as you say, maybe of no practical use. Thank you.


exact I did not make the connection, you are right the x and gamma can be seen as a EM wave like light.
StevenL Posted - 04/30/2022 : 09:18:08
quote:
Originally posted by Damien68

quote:
Originally posted by StevenL
Does anyone know if the Poynting Vector is used, especially in any practical way, in the study of ionizing radiation?


it is only for electromagnetic waves and it is a very theoretical tool, difficult to apply in a simple way without having 3 or 4 years of specific university study (or high scool but it's less good for that ).



yes, its very theoretical. I assume if its good for EM waves it applies to x and gamma rays, but as you say, maybe of no practical use. Thank you.



Damien68 Posted - 04/30/2022 : 08:26:30
quote:
Originally posted by StevenL
Does anyone know if the Poynting Vector is used, especially in any practical way, in the study of ionizing radiation?


it is only for electromagnetic waves and it is a very theoretical tool, difficult to apply in a simple way without having 3 or 4 years of specific university study (or high scool but it's less good for that ).
ullix Posted - 04/30/2022 : 07:22:57
... but if you find some use, I'll put it into GeigerLog :-)

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