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 2.GQ Geiger Muller Counter
 Now that I bought a GMC 500+
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cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2021 :  23:26:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

There’s a lot of knowledgeable people here.. and I’ve read a lot of the posts in my research to decide on a Geiger counter.

Before I pull the trigger…. Should i be considering other brands.
Not much can beat the price/function of the GNC500+ but I see it does have issues related to the GM tubes. .

Should I spend more for better GM tubes… like a Radex, Soeks etc?
Is one SBM20 tube better than the 2 tubes in the 500+ ?

I can see many of you have multiple devices… hence my question in this forum.


Edited by - cvee on 03/04/2021 00:47:33
Reply #1

Damien68

France
516 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2021 :  02:52:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it's just my opinion, but it depends on what you want to do with it.
if you just want a dosimeter to know your total exposure over time, you can go with Radex.
If you want to experiment or find samples, GQs are better. they will not replace professional equipment 10 or 20x more expensive but it remains sufficiently reliable.
if you want to sample food the 600+ will be better because it is very more sensitive even to beta or gamma.
on the 500+ there are two tubes but the second tube is only useful for very high radiation levels, so not necessarily necessary.

Mastery is acquired by studying, with it everything becomes simple

Edited by - Damien68 on 02/27/2021 02:56:44
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Reply #2

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2021 :  23:50:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’m now a 500+ owner… and as a newbie i probably have silly questions.

1, What is the default value for :-
Tube1 Dead Time
Tube2 Dead Time

As I learn to navigate I accidentally altered the default values of those 2 parameters. Oops.

2. I don’t see the option for Auto Voltage. I do see voltage value and % so my unit should have it right?
I’m on rev 2.23

3. I’m seeing a flash coming from the GM tube slots.
It’s not related to the back light.
Is there an led on pcb that might be flashing? It’s a blue flash and maybe a white flash?Blue flash Might be network activity related. Thought?
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Reply #3

Damien68

France
516 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  01:46:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi cvee,
welcome to the amazing world of geiger counters,

at all times you can do a factory reset which should reset the deadtime values to the default values.
for point 2 and 3 I have a old HW version, I dunno.

Mastery is acquired by studying, with it everything becomes simple

Edited by - Damien68 on 03/04/2021 01:49:22
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Reply #4

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  02:42:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Damien68

Hi cvee,
welcome to the amazing world of geiger counters,

at all times you can do a factory reset which should reset the deadtime values to the default values.
for point 2 and 3 I have a old HW version, I dunno.



I thought about factory reset…. But my wifi password is sooooo long it took me ages to enter it… I can’t go through that again..
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Reply #5

Damien68

France
516 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  04:11:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cvee
I thought about factory reset…. But my wifi password is sooooo long it took me ages to enter it… I can’t go through that again..


it's up to you to assume that , but on my old 500+ after factory reset, it is:
tube1 dead time = 120uS
tube2 dead time = 200uS

Mastery is acquired by studying, with it everything becomes simple

Edited by - Damien68 on 03/04/2021 04:14:07
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Reply #6

ihab17

Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  12:46:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In my opinion, GMC products offer a wide variety of options that very few, if not none, offer. I don't use GMC anymore as mine was defective and I chose to go for another much expensive, yet, I'm not satisfied with it and hope it had what GMC products offer

Pros
GMC has a
  • Wi-Fi module that can log online without having to attach it to a USB cable and download the data

  • GMC products have large internal memory that logs huge amount of data with respect to SE International Ranger, Mazur Instruments, Inspector and other more expensive devices

  • A common data communication for data retrieval and communication. You don't have to use their software to download data, any other third-party software can retrieve data, like GeigerLog by Ullix which I highly recommend

  • Many options to change setting from the device, like Tube Voltage, Fast Estimate Time, possibility to take screenshots. None of these options are available in many other products which cost even more

  • Affordable prices with respect to the other vendors

  • Firmware Updates. I own a SE Int Ranger, and they don't offer firmware updates. Neither does Mazur. If you want to install a new Mazur firmware, you have to ship it back to the manufacturer.

  • GMC pancake counters, i.e., GMC 600+ cost almost half the price of the other vendors like Ranger, Mazur, and Inspector

  • GMC has support forum where you can interact with the other users and the DEV team. other vendors do not have such service like GMC

  • You can configure the device from the software offered by GMC using a standard USB cable, like Wi-Fi name and password, FET, device ID for online datalogging, device reset, download device-taken screenshots, and others

  • You can configure the device from other third party products like GeigerLog because GMC uses communication standards



Cons

  • GMC do not offer any calibration certificates

  • There are no public firmware updates you can download without asking the DEV team and send your serial number and wait for a link which is a bit uncomfortable process. You have to discover if there is a new firmware instead of having a public list for firmware updates and changelog

  • The software offered by GMC is not updated publicly. The available GQ Geiger Counter Data Viewer is version 2.60, but it doesn't support GMC 600+, you have to download GQ Geiger Counter Data Viewer version 2.62 which is not listed among the software to download



If the GMC devices become more reliable with the counts and collected data, and improve the algorithm so that the collected data fit the Poisson distribution you see in GeigerLog I'll be the first to get back to GMC products because of all the Pros I listed above that almost none offer
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Reply #7

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  13:50:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Damien68

quote:
Originally posted by cvee
I thought about factory reset…. But my wifi password is sooooo long it took me ages to enter it… I can’t go through that again..


it's up to you to assume that , but on my old 500+ after factory reset, it is:
tube1 dead time = 120uS
tube2 dead time = 200uS



I did a firmware update... which meant a factory reset was also done.
Yes... those are indeed the default values.
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Reply #8

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  13:56:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ihab17

Cons

  • GMC do not offer any calibration certificates

  • There are no public firmware updates you can download without asking the DEV team and send your serial number and wait for a link which is a bit uncomfortable process. You have to discover if there is a new firmware instead of having a public list for firmware updates and changelog

  • The software offered by GMC is not updated publicly. The available GQ Geiger Counter Data Viewer is version 2.60, but it doesn't support GMC 600+, you have to download GQ Geiger Counter Data Viewer version 2.62 which is not listed among the software to download



If the GMC devices become more reliable with the counts and collected data, and improve the algorithm so that the collected data fit the Poisson distribution you see in GeigerLog I'll be the first to get back to GMC products because of all the Pros I listed above that almost none offer



Thanks for your detailed response. It came at the right time.
Having had to do a firmware update (which i requested) it meant i lost all my configs. My wifi password is really long.... and i had read it was possible to set via the pc software.
Tried the Logger and the Viewer and i couldn't see where to do it.

Then i read your post.. and got 2.62 and voila MAGIC.

All setup again in a fraction of the time.
Why is not 2.62 the default viewer software now?

I have to say on Rev 2.25 i have noticed some improvements in the UI... but still need to play around.

Did notice an immediate bug however.
When scrolling 'usually' down it'll jump 1-3 menu options.
So then you need to scroll up to get to where you wanted to go.

Hopefully dev are aware of that issue and are looking to fix it.

But thanks for all the input... learning lots quickly.
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Reply #9

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2021 :  17:08:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I Did notice an immediate bug however.
When scrolling 'usually' down it'll jump 1-3 menu options.
So then you need to scroll up to get to where you wanted to go.

But thanks for all the input... learning lots quickly.



Strange but the UI bug I mentioned earlier with scrolling is gone.

Only query i have now relates to auto voltage.

Does this feature now come automatically enabled?
Is that why I don’t have a menu option for it?

Edited by - cvee on 03/04/2021 17:10:37
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Reply #10

Damien68

France
516 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2021 :  00:41:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ihab17
If the GMC devices become more reliable with the counts and collected data, and improve the algorithm so that the collected data fit the Poisson distribution you see in GeigerLog I'll be the first to get back to GMC products because of all the Pros I listed above that almost none offer


I also think that the recorded data should always be raw data without FET and witout deadtime correction. And reserve the interpretations just for display.

What would be nice is if the data could be saved in an adaptive format which is feasible with the current GQ logging protocol. (i.e) save in CPM format, and switch temporarily to CPS format if critical variations are detected. also we could recalculate all the corrections / estimates made for the screen. and the data should then find a Poissonian template.

Datas is not wrong but just interpreted. but that prevents checking them with the Poisson criterion. Anyway, in principle, with an FET = 60s it should work well.

Mastery is acquired by studying, with it everything becomes simple

Edited by - Damien68 on 03/07/2021 07:31:33
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Reply #11

ullix

Germany
602 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2021 :  07:15:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agreed. And, e.g. deadtime correction is something easily done with GeigerLog's "Scaling" options on existing data.
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Reply #12

EmfDev

1438 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2021 :  12:29:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@cvee, under tube settings you can check if the tube voltage has real voltage reading on it e.g. 50% (410 V). If it contains the parenthesis, it supports the auto voltage adjustment.
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Reply #13

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2021 :  18:13:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EmfDev

@cvee, under tube settings you can check if the tube voltage has real voltage reading on it e.g. 50% (410 V). If it contains the parenthesis, it supports the auto voltage adjustment.



Yes it shows the voltage/percentage for tube1 and percentage only for tube2.
So in this case… is there an Auto Voltage setting?

Can I toggle auto voltage…. Or is it always on?

Ps. The problem with navigating has returned.
Scrolling down sometimes skip 1-2 lines.
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Reply #14

EmfDev

1438 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2021 :  10:07:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes it has auto voltage and it is always on.

When the menu skips, is it connected to USB? I will let team know about this issue.
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Reply #15

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2021 :  01:07:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EmfDev

Yes it has auto voltage and it is always on.

When the menu skips, is it connected to USB? I will let team know about this issue.



When connected to USB the issue happens frequently… and it skips multiple menu entries per button press. Usually the down button.
When it’s not on usb… it’s more infrequent… but still happens… though it will usually only skip over one menu entry per button press.
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Reply #16

EmfDev

1438 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2021 :  13:57:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank for the information. We will check this issue.
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Reply #17

cvee

Australia
16 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2021 :  01:33:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has the skipping menu items on navigation been resolved?
I don’t know if there’s been any updated firmwares since I mentioned the issue.

Thanks
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Reply #18

EmfDev

1438 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2021 :  10:16:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi cvee, there is still no changes in the skipping the menu but will try to get it into the next fw update.
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