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| Reply #1
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2023 : 03:22:05
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Cool, thx. OK, so here goes. I was able to read in your default db file in CSV, doing as required, I selected columns 1 and 2 in this case, to get Gate Time and then CPM.
For my own case, I was simply trying to read in the direct output from the GMCmap data file, downloaded. The top few lines are as follows:
# DateTime, CPM, ACPM, uSv/h, Latitude, Longitude
"2023-05-16 20:48:40","14","12.97","0.09","45.314234","-75.9219635"
"2023-05-16 20:38:37","16","12.97","0.10","45.314234","-75.9219635"
"2023-05-16 20:28:35","11","12.97","0.07","45.314234","-75.9219635"
Unless I am misreading something, the DateTime format looks correct, and when I try to try to read in based on dialog box guidance, I chose columns 0 and 1 to see the same data. It appears to read in, no errors shown, but no graph shows up, and when I print out the data in the log monitor, it shows that the CPM has been read in, but not the DateTime.
I must be making an error, even an obvious one, but I am missing it. I looked at the default db csv and their are more header lines that I dont really understand, but I assumed the headers (and in my case there is only one) are ignored. I assumed the # sign in the header is basically a comment line that Geigerlog ignores.
Any idea? Am I simply being obtuse? It happens :)
Steven Lightfoot (PS: I love your software). |
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #2
ullix
Germany
1112 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2023 : 04:00:39
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I know, the obvious is sometimes hard to see ...
# Index, DateTime, CPM, CPS
0, 2019-01-11 19:32:14, 181, 6
1, 2019-01-11 19:32:18, 197, 3
How many quotation marks (like >"<) do you see in my sample?
And in yours?
"2023-05-16 20:48:40","14","12.97","0.09","45.314234","-75.9219635"
"2023-05-16 20:38:37","16","12.97","0.10","45.314234","-75.9219635"
"2023-05-16 20:28:35","11","12.97","0.07","45.314234","-75.9219635"
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| Reply #3
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2023 : 16:09:02
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Indeed. I get it now, and it is clear, once I look back at your default db csv and the original one I am trying to use.
My confusion perhaps was exacerbated by the Guidance section in the dialog box which explicitly uses quotation marks to describe the format of the DateTime info. Maybe a future version could modify the Guidance to remove the quotation marks? Just a friendly suggestion.
So here is my next question - The format from the Geigermap data seems to come automatically with quotation marks, unless there is a way in the map data section to select the form of the csv data that I don't know about (which is entirely possible).
In your experience, what would be the easiest way to get and use Geiger map data in the exact csv form that Geigerlog requires?
All help is greatly appreciated!
Steven Lightfoot |
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #4
ullix
Germany
1112 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2023 : 22:27:03
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quote:
In your experience, what would be the easiest way to get and use Geiger map data in the exact csv form that Geigerlog requires?
Most of the time my universal tool for such tasks is Geany, an editor available for all OS: https://www.geany.org/
Depending on the layout of any data, a spreadsheet like Excel, Libreoffice, might also work.
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| Reply #5
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2023 : 07:46:57
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OK thank you, I sorted it out, using Open Office spreadsheet. I have 17 days of data at 10 min samples (undersampling per your guidance) and the Poisson looks good at R .995, and I am posting the FFT here below, which was the point of this exercise (to get some longitudinal data to see if there is any daily or other periodicity - which you advised not to expect).
I am not an FFT expert by any means, but based what I know within the frequency domain plot, it looks mostly noise and nothing is showing up. Any comments? Thanks as always, Steven Lightfoot
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Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #6
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2023 : 08:32:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ullix
Wow, digging deep into the much loved Poisson statistics!
I figured my answer would need some attachments, which I couldn't post here, so I started an answer on the GeigerLog site under the heading:
GeigerLog as Doomsday Predictor
https://sourceforge.net/p/geigerlog/discussion/general/thread/2eee6dd990/
While this heading may not be fully serious, the content should be!
I think this quote reflects the most important restriction to do any Poisson-statistice-educated setting of alarm levels: quote:
... with a maximum of one false alarm per month on average.
which implies that you have to bite the bullet in defining how much nuisance you want to bear by understanding the nature of the statistics of radioactive decay.
Download data and spreadsheet to experiment with yourself.
P.S. one request: please avoid the "Reply with Quote" button in this forum whenever possible. This really blows up the thread for mostly no advantage. To quote single pieces from comments, which you may need for good reference, you can always use the "Insert Quote" button in the editor.
I finally had a chance to review the info you posted in Source Forge, and I agree with your approach. I love your work. I was assuming one could actually do the integration manually if you knew the Poisson equation parameter(s), but you used the Excel Poisson function which is easier and faster. You basically integrated backwards from infinity to until you got the total summed probability you initially proposed (1 event every two months), and then the corresponding CPM value was 42.
I got confused at first with the terminology 'false alarm', but you did get my meaning. The basic point is that with your assumed background radiation distribution, if you see a reading of 42 once every two months (but not more) you could assume this is background. If you saw a lot of 42s (more than one per 2 months) you could assume you were reading some rad source greater than background.
I have noted and filed all this, for future reference, thank you!
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
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Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #7
ullix
Germany
1112 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2023 : 23:51:46
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Correct.
In the meantime GeigerLog has got a more powerful feature to deal with alarms and reduce frequency of false alarms. One can now define that the average of the last 1 ... 60 readings is higher than a configured high alarm level, or lower than a configured low alarm level.
I put it as a challenge to you to determine the probability of the occurrence of 1, 2, 3, ... consecutive values being on average higher than a configured alarm-level = X!
P.S.: the FFT - data look excellent, and absolutely nothing to see ;-)
One of the rare occasions where the FFT does show an effect is posted here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/geigerlog/discussion/general/thread/b43896fc28/#7b62
It is about the memory-use swings in a long-run of GeigerLog on Windows.
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| Reply #8
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2023 : 03:11:55
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Ullix,
Thank you for all this. I now need to wrap up my Geiger work for six months, and move back to my Arduino work. In Arduino I need to be able to control some DC motors, and this is my top priority. In addition I am playing with the Arduino Uno random number generator (and random seeding) so all this discussion about random variables and Poisson has been helpful.
When I get access to some K salts, maybe later this summer, I will do some more tests (and with my kids who are interested). I may also upgrade to the next version of Geigerlog.
I have learned a lot, and will come back for more.
If you ever wish to contact me, I am Steven D. Lightfoot on LinkedIn.
Thank you. |
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #9
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2023 : 06:55:24
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Ullix,
I just wanted to add that I think your sw Geigerlog has a LOT of potential also as a statistical analysis tool. I dont know your plans for it, or if you are just noodling around, but I see it has real potential.
As I play more and more with Arduino, and start to get enviro data and other variable data, I would consider importing into Giegerlog to run some tests. What is holding me back for now, is that the Arduino Uno does not appear to have a DateTime function, and would need to interface with my PC, but I haven't figured out code yet to import DateTime via USB. I am not sure its easily possible.
Anyway, I like Geigerlog!
Steven Lightfoot |
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #10
ullix
Germany
1112 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2023 : 00:37:27
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Steven, GeigerLog allows long-time recording of any data, be it Geiger counts or values like Temperature, Barometric Pressure, CO2, simulated data, and so on. If any statistical tool is missing for dealing with such time-course data, I will add it.
However, I don't see anything missing - speak up if you see a need!
For your playtime with Arduino I'd like to make a suggestion: skip the Uno and go with a serious chip, like the ESP32. It has much more power, much more memory, much more disk space, and it comes with WiFi by default (and Bluetooth). So e.g. getting the time, like from Atomic clock time servers, is no problem. And lots more.
Look for the "AmbioMon Device" in the GeigerLog config and code. This is an interface for a full blown ESP32 device, communicating either by WiFi or by Serial Port. It all works.
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| Reply #11
StevenL
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2023 : 02:46:32
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Ullix,
Thank you for the great info. Although I am an experienced (mechanical) engineer, I am pretty much a beginner with the (modern) details of coding, data acquisition and electronics, at least at the fine detail level. For now I will stick with the Uno while I get up to speed on Arduino code and C++, but great idea to move on to more sophisticated boards with more features, eventually.
My main goal is to A) maybe move into the nuclear energy field (one of the reasons I am doing self-education on ionizing radiation) and B) develop some specific mechatronics projects for home (at least for now) use. I have a long way to go.
If I have any stats questions, I will will back to you.
Steven Lightfoot |
Steven Lightfoot, Eng.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |
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| Reply #12
ullix
Germany
1112 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2023 : 03:34:52
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GeigerLog has IoT support since very long, and this has just been updated to explicitly support 'Tasmota' devices.
First thing tested is a set of electric sockets, which allow switching (up to 3.6 kW loads!) and measuring voltage, current, power, cosine-phi and other stuff.
In my experience quite reliable at least for voltage, see this pic:
Though I am a bit surprised: where are the '220V' we are supposed to have? And do you notice the day-time cycle?
More on this topic on the GeigerLog site:
https://sourceforge.net/p/geigerlog/discussion/features/thread/d10076b63a/
And: a Tasmota based Geiger counter may be coming, made by the folks in Ukraine. Will be supported by GeigerLog, once available.
https://sourceforge.net/p/geigerlog/discussion/features/thread/02400c685d/
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GeigerLog - Evaluation of Upcoming Version 1.5
